tv All In With Chris Hayes MSNBC June 16, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PDT
barristers. i see women who are going to win elections and science competitions and arts awards. i see leaders who will inspire tonight on "all in" -- >> they don't know me. they really don't know what i've actually walked through and how hard it is. >> rachel dolezal breaks her silence and our own melissa harris-perry asks the questions everyone wants to know. >> are you black? do you consider yourself a con artist? plus, donald trump rides his own golden escalator to the 2016 stage. >> i'm really rich. i'll show you that next time. >> it was a presidential announcement that needs to be
seen to be believed. >> i will be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. we will have full analysis of trump's political theater. and concentration camps being set up just miles from our shore. where is the american response to what's happening in the dominican republic? "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. on the meaning of what it is to be black, a former head of the spokane naacp, rachel dolezal, a woman born to white parents but who identifies as black is telling her side of the story in this exclusive interview with melissa harris-perry. >> i've heard a lot of people ask you ask you you are you african-american or are you caucasianan. i am not going to ask it that way. are you black? >> yes. >> what does it mean to you to assume the identity of blackness?
>> well, it means several things. first of all, it means that i have really gone there with the experience in terms of being a mother of two black sons and really owning what it -- what it means to experience and live black -- blackness. and that's one aspect. another aspect would be that i -- from a very young age, felt -- i don't know if it was spiritual, visceral, just very instinctual connection with black is beautiful, you know, the -- just the black experience and wanting to celebrate that. and i didn't know how to articulate that as a young child. kindergarten or whatever, you don't have words for what's going on. i was socially conditioned to not own that.
and to be -- be limited to -- to whatever biological identity was thrust upon me and narrated to me. and so i -- i kind of felt pretty awkward all the time with that. and i remember when -- chose to adopt my youngest sibling, i -- knowing some of the resistance to just my independent spirit and creative ways that i wanted to express myself, i was -- i felt like who is going to be the link for the kids in coming to the family. and i really felt like a mother/sister to -- from the beginning. >> so let me first start with the idea of being the parent of black children.
so my mother is a white woman who interestingly grew up in spokane, washington, who has raised black children, but she doesn't herself feel black, right? so she's a white woman of doing the work of parenting black children. help me found why you see a distinction on the one hand being a white person raising and rearing black children whether they're initially your siblings or your buy your children, all the different ways we make family, versus feeling in your own skin in your own personhood that you are, yourself, black. >> right. i felt very isolated with my identity virtually my entire life, that nobody really got it. and that i didn't really have the personal ability to express it. and certainly i kind of imagined that maybe at some point, the kids graduated from high school and in their adult stride that maybe i would be able to really process that, own it publicly and discuss the kind of complexity. but certainly it's -- you know, i wasn't expecting it to be
thrust upon me right now, so -- >> when you talk about -- when you respond to my questions, are you black and your response is yes, there are listeners who are enraged. not confused, enrage. and many of those listeners, many of those observers who are angry are black women. can understand this anger? >> yes. and i would say in a -- stepping outside of myself, i would probably be enraged. i would be like what the -- this person, how dare she claim this. but those -- they don't know me. they really don't know what i've actually walked through and how hard it is. this has not been something that just is a casual, you know, come and go sort of identity, you
know, or an identity crisis or something to fade away. people have asked like, so, are you going to go back to being white? if you're rejected by the black community, what do you do? i'll be me. i'll be me. because i -- you know, i feel like at the same time i never want to be a liability to the cause. and i take that very seriously and in consideration. there's so many to just process with sort of going from being celebrated as a black woman and loving how that feels by all the students, my mentor and, like, feeling like, all right, i can be me and they get me and i get them and we talk about, you know, yeah, you know, just iggy azalia and cultural appropriation and all these things. i teacher race culture classes, black feminism.
>> so you have a critique of racial appropriation. >> absolutely. >> because you are currently being criticized for being a racial appropriator. >> right. and i get it. i get it. >> in what ways have you profited directly from blackness which is undoubtedly the question people are saying, well, you took a job. how much do you get paid as the naacp of spokane? >> nothing. the naacp is a completely unpaid organization, except for the national offices. so even the board of directors on the national level is unpaid. it's a volunteer position. >> and how much are you paid for your role on the police accountability board? >> nothing. >> when i asked you are you black and you affirmed, yes, that you are, and you explained to me what blackness is, for many people, race and i -- for more people that i expected,
race is based in some set of biological realities and that it has everything to do with parentage. when you talk about the people who are your parents, who are you talking about? >> well, if i'm talking about mom and dad, i don't really have a -- a mom figure in my life right now. i have a dad and i've talked about him and -- or that's been -- that was the three-second pause was when his picture was pulled out, is this your father? are you african-american? >> i was wondering if your dad really is an african-american man. >> that is a very -- i mean, i don't know what you're implying. >> are you african-american? >> i don't -- i don't understand the question. >> are your parents -- are they white? >> everything from all the related events flooded my mind and i was like, okay, there is not about me.
now is the time for no comment because i need to step back and see who is really going to be affected by what i say right now. and so i do acknowledge that the people that raised me are larry and ruthann. i do not feel like they are my mom and dad. and i think that hopefully, even if i'm -- you know, judged or be that confusion or angry about how i identify, i hope that people can understand that family is fluid. those same people have probably nephews, cousins, maybe have somebody that they identify as yeah, that's my family, but, you know, they might not be biologically family. >> so you told stories about your dad and his exit from the
south. when you were telling that story, who are you telling that story about? and is it a true story of the person that you're telling it about? >> yeah. alver wilkerson is who that story is about. and he's amazing, absolutely amazing. >> what about the stories of your birth origins, that you were born in a teepee, that you spent time living in south africa, that -- because what you said here, and i think it's an interesting point that your racial identity becomes tied up with your credibility and your credibility is tied up with your capacity to be an advocate. so i'm asking these questions in part because i want you to be able to help us understand the credibility part. >> right. and so some of that has gotten to be really stirred up in a soup.
so to clarify, some of it has kind of been a little creative nonfiction with regard to what happened and the sequence of events and dates and so forth. and i'm not sure yeah, i've never seen pictures of ruthann be pregnant with me. and the birth certificate is a month and a half after i was actually born. yes, they were living in a teepee and building a house when i was actually born. i actually remember where the teepee was right -- next to the -- or across the road from the house. and yes, i had a recurve bow and a compound bow and there was hunting involved. >> montana. >> right. in montana. and yes, they lived -- and so a lot of times when -- it's true that my family, meaning my three younger siblings and isaiah and larry moved from montana to colorado to south africa and i went to under grad school in mississippi and then i went to grad school at howard. that's all true.
that happened. so -- but then, you know, my family moved here and then did this. that doesn't necessarily mean i went each place with them through that whole process. so, yeah, it's like yes and no on some things, but there's -- i get the question of credibility, right? and like i said, i will own that there have been a few interviews, especially after having full custody of isaiah, it became a little complicated. >> i have been having fights with people in my life about you, which is an odd thing. i don't know you except for the few moments that we've been talking, having met isaiah briefly and he's just an extraordinary young man. >> i'm so proud of him. >> but people say to me, she's a con artist. are you a con artist? >> i don't think so. you know? i don't think anything that i have done with regards to the movement, my work, my life, my
identity, i mean, it's an been very thought and careful. sometimes decisions have been made for survival reasons or to protect people that i love. and all things included, when it boils down, the entire world could say stand down, but when it comes to being there for my kids and my sister, i will never stand down on that. it's been hard for me to actually have the courage to be there for myself. because my life and kind of my -- my past, my journey has been to be so heavily aware of the needs of other people and trying to organize, strategize and advocate for and protect those interests. and so at some point, i'm kind of thrust into are you going to be there for yourself, or are you not -- are you going to back down, you know, stand down, stand up, what's going to happen?
and i really have kind of taken a personal and an organizational and -- in the last three days. okay. here is family. here is naacp. accountability, my students, all these things. my work. here is my family and here's my -- and then there's me. and what is in the big picture interests. and so my resignation yesterday, i believe -- i really came to see that and that came from ultimately conversations with my oldest son. which he's like -- it's like now is the time when he's like, you should say something. like this is -- you know, and i really, as the local president, have to defer to regional, national within my -- as i'm wearing that hat at the naacp. i take that very seriously by protocol. and i feel so grateful and
honored that the area conference president, the national president really went to bat on friday and said, we support her. and her work in the naacp. that -- you know, that's powerful. >> there is more to come of that interview with rachel dolezal, including her answer to this. >> so let me ask you the question that every black woman hates to be asked. what's up your hair, right? so -- >> i'll talk to you about it.
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>> much more of melissa harris-perry's exclusive interview with rachel dolezal and melissa harris-perry herself, next. seems like we've hit a road block. that reminds me... anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea... ...gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against occasional digestive issues. with three types of good bacteria. live the regular life. phillips'. summers heating up with royal caribbean's wow sale. our biggest sale of the summer ends tomorrow. get a 50% reduced deposit. plus up to $200 onboard spending money. and up to 30% off your cruise.
call 1-800-royal-caribbean or your travel agent today. so let me ask you the question that every black woman late to be asked. what's up with your hair, right? >> i'll talk to you about it. >> that's right. for me, for one of my producers, this was the moment, she was like, i can do all of this, i can stretch, i can try to think about racial identity in this more constructive way, but i cannot with the layer. because hair goes to this -- even if race is not biological, the experiences of being black girls dealing with the
physiological realities of the difficulty of black hair, man, they just -- they feel like core pain. so talk to me about your hair, your hair choices and also the ways in which you -- you have talked and had a kind of discursive relationship with black hair. >> yeah. my hair journey has been interesting. certainly i've gotten the whole tsa, you know, but there's so much of it we have to search it. you know, the twist out, the dreads, whatever. >> i have to pause. i want more, but i want you to stop with the tsa thing for a second because literally my producer said to me -- and so i want you to address this. she says -- she says every time that happens to her in the tsa and they're in her hair, she feels deeply, profoundly violated. >> absolutely. >> and she said she probably likes it because it confirms her black or racial identity. >> hell no. hell no. get your hands out of my hair. and no, like i don't -- no, no. that's a personal violation. that's a privacy breach. no. >> even if it confirms your
blackness in some way. >> that didn't cross my mind at that point. >> would you describe what you're doing as passing? >> you know, i think it's different than that. and i don't even know that i've had time to really put into words exactly what -- what is going on right now, but i think that if i was to drop back into different moments of when i've either been identified -- including by the police -- as black, white and unidentifiable, all three, or, you know, i've identified as, you know, in certain moments different -- different ethnicities. but when -- because i do hair, i do a lot of hair for actually black girls that are adopted into white families. and some of the girls that i have done hair for were actually
at the point where they didn't even want to speak to anybody at school because they were so ashamed to be called a boy and all this kind of stuff. in the grocery store, i'm like, excuse me, here is my card. i do black -- you know, i do hair. if i'm -- it looks like i will get it from a certain -- it's just like, oh, of course, because her hair, her hair. and so when i'm doing the hair and braiding -- i'm a braider. at the end of the day, that's my main. but for a girl to smile for the first time, to throw her blades and, you know, she was gone from having her haircut all the way off and just the trauma, to -- if i can do anything that's healing, even to one single person -- >> all right. joining me now, msnbc's own melissa harris-perry. i have a lot of thoughts. the first thought is you sat across from her, you interact with her and there is this
question of what are we dealing with here? >> well, i don't know. i have a ph.d. in political science. i'm not that kind of doctor. >> you can say as a person interacting with another person who actually talked -- >> sure, yes. i guess what i would say is my experience with her -- and i just want the be clear. we talked for about an hour. i had some conversations with her sons who are lovely. for me, when i meet the children of a parent and the children are fantastic and lovely and smart and engaged, that is always going to be me a positive balance towards their parents. and i didn't experience from her any malice of any kind. there were moments when i thought, that's not how i see the world. but honestly, i have lots of different conversations with many people when i see the world quite differently from them. what i experienced from her more than anything was a deep sense of familiarity. and i think that, for me, is maybe part of why i've approached this story a little differently than some folks. again, my mother is a white
woman. she was from spokane. i get how one could be raised in a family with black siblings and have two white parents and yet not experience your whiteness in the way that you believe that other people are experiencing whiteness because i have a sibling with two white parents who was raised in a household with black siblings. i don't think she would ever say she was black, but it's a different kind of whiteness. >> that gets to the nub of the issue here, right? in the interview, there are people raised at her, people are enraged at her -- >> they told meive gave away my daughter's blackness. i'm like, i'm sorry, because i don't feel threatened by rachel's crossing of the boundary. but parts of what i've started to learn and understand, i'm very disturbed by a lot of things we were reacting to in
terms of this biological, if you can't wave your black parents in a picture, then i'm not -- if you can't show me one drop of black blood you're not black. that disturbs me. here is what i like. i am so invested in my black womanhood, i am so proud of the struggle and the joy and the hair and the self-expression that i -- i am going to police this space because it matters to me. and so the more that i can see that policing not as a kind of narrow biological concern but, rather, as a, like, this is my space. >> to me, i'm an outside observer in a certain sense in this. there's a certain sense of -- like there's the deception. my read on this situation is, as we learn more about the background of this family and this has now been reported so i'm not -- you know, her brother is about to face trial with very serious allegations of child molestation. >> yes. >> she has fallen out with her family, it appears, over exactly
whatever happened in that home. >> yep. >> it strikes me that we're also dealing with someone who has very deep trauma around her family that has taken this emanation. >> sure. but i also think that the idea that wanting to pass into blackness as inherently crazy is something we need to question. the idea that oh, my gosh, only a crazy white woman would want to be black should disgust us. >> fair point. you must be nuts because you did this thing. >> because who would want to be black? let me say this. if i can look at you and say are you white? and you're going to say to me yes and everyone would be in agreement. if i go and swab the inside of your mouth and sent it off and they find a drop of black blood, are you lying? and i guess the question for us is whether or not we think she's holding one set of beliefs about herself than another. if you're asking what did i
experience across from her, it's not that she's holding one belief of herself apart from another. it's that she legitimately experiences herself as a black woman. >> a lot of people -- for a lot of people, that was the ah-ha moment. you sued howard because they were discriminating against us because you're white. this shows that you're essentially a hustler and a con artist. >> she might be a hustler and a con artist. that's completely possible. let me say this. what she responded to me about howard was a general discrimination case. my little married to a civil rights activist kicks in. discrimination cases are harder than reverse racism discrimination cases. so if i am a woman who is pregnant with -- and i am in a financially difficult situation and i get an attorney and the attorney says, you know what? we're not going to go on this after gender, we're going to go on this after race. i don't know if that's what
happened. if you look at her and you want to believe she is a hustler, she is a hustler. if you look at her and you see somebody struggling through the complexities of life, you might see that. >> thank you for being here. >> very, very nice to see you. come back. he's been flirting with the idea for 25 years and today donald trump finally made it official. his remarkable pitch to be president of the united states. >> i would build a great wall -- and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me. and i'll build them very inexpensively. i hire people. they do a website, it costs me $3. i'm really rich. i'll show you that next time. burns on my watch! try alka-seltzer heartburn reliefchews. they work fast and don't taste chalky. mmm...amazing. i have heartburn. alka-seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. ♪ mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys ♪ ♪ don't let'em pick guitars and drive them old trucks ♪
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i am officially running for president of the united states and we are going to make our country great again. >> now, your first question after seeing donald trump officially toss his hat in the ring today may have been who has donald trump in the all in 2016 fantasy candidate draft? the answer is no one. trump along with palin were drafted as a joke. there was a whammy candidate and players who got whammy candidates had to option to trade them away. so sam ceder initially traded for a different candidate. someone originally chosen by jess mcintosh. >> i'm going to go right in the middle and start with four. >> number four.
no big names out yet. no big names out yet. might be a big one. let's see who we got. oh, familiar territory. >> jeb bush, his father was president bush. his brother was president bush. and now he wants to be president bush. >> i've had enough bushes. >> sorry, mother. it's time for another. he is former florida governor jeb bush. >> because sam teeter was able to steal jeb bush, he's the one who scored 100 points on the fantasy draft after bush's official announcement yet and jess mcintosh eventually traded away for oprah which now appears to have been a big mistake. so the all in 2016 fantasy candidate draft committee was left with a conundrum. should she be punished for her mistake of swapping for oprah if that was caused by our mistake of not taking donald trump seriousliness? no.
donald trump will now be restored to the roster of jess mcintosh when means she is awarded 100 respective points. sam teeter may have a problem with this, so the committee has awarded him the opportunity to watch the speech with me in the movies theater, next. bring us those who want to feel well rested. aleve pm. the only one to combine a sleep aid... plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. be a morning person again, with aleve pm. audible safety beeping audible safety beeping audible safety beeping the nissan rogue with safety shield technologies. the only thing left to fear is you imagination. nissan. innovation that excites.
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ugh! heartburn! did someone say burn? try alka-seltzer heartburn reliefchews. they work fast and don't taste chalky. mmm...amazing. thank you. alka-seltzer heartburn reliefchews. enjoy the relief. this morning, the democratic national committee released a statement with seriousness. today, done affiliated trump became the second major republican candidate who announce for president in two days. he adds some much-needed seriousness that has previously been lacking from the gop field and we look forward hearing more about his idea hes for the nation. almost made it through. maybe the slightest hint of sarcasm right there. yes, donald trump, answered the prayers of cable news producers and enter the race for the republican presidential nomination today, rising to the occasion with a rambling 45-minute speech was a glorious
display of pure unadulterated trumpiness. the amazing political theater, the kind that makes you want to go to the movies. that's why i'm sitting here with msnbc contributor sam. whoa. that some some group of people, thousands. so nice. thank you very much. that's really nice. thank you. it's great to be at trump tower. it's great to be in a wonderful city of new york and it's an honor to have everybody here. this is beyond anybody's expectations. there's been no crowd like this. and i can tell you -- >> no crowd like this. >> no. this is a fully paid for crowd. >> they sweated like dogs. they didn't know the room was too big because they didn't have anybody there. how are they going to beat isis? i don't think it's going to happen.
>> first of all, the knock at rick perry, i guess, you know, you want him to knock at rick perry. but he literally starts off by saying untrue things. thousands. there were not thousands of people in the room. hillary clinton literally had 10,000 people in new york city three days ago. interest i think he was saying flow crowd like this for any new york politician in the republican party. and that's true. how many people showed up for the pataki rally? very small crowd. >> are those real? >> i can tell you, there has been a report that there were paid -- the actors, literally a talent agency that does actors put people there. >> i had no idea. >> i mean, i don't know. and i can tell you that there's been a report that i think it's fairley credible and, you know, so -- but we don't know and it
doesn't matter at the end of the day. because i think, look, this is an election that is going to be won by somebody who spends a lot of money. whether it's putting people in an audience or buying tv time, it works. maybe that's the way he'll defeat isis. >> so let's look at the end. can we roll over the entrance? there he is. he starts. he rides an escalator of glory down. this has been a perennial thing with donald trump, right? he never does it. kay coppins wrote this great buzz field file about his perennial testing the waters and then he doesn't do it. why is this happening? >> i have to say, in the spirit of donald trump running, i have to say, i told you so. because i mean, here it is, the bottom line is sort of, look, his celebrity career is a little bit on the wing and he has a situation now where there's 15 or people there. >> i love this part. >> i am officially running for
president of the united states and we are going to make our country great again. >> is this where he does the -- >> and sound two down. >> here it is. he's going to be one of 15 people. and i guarantee you when he does drop out of the race, it's going to be the republican party's fault. this is a sam teeter marginal rewards hypothesis which you have been saying. the more peon, the more incentive there is to get in. >> under donald trump. >> yeah. >> because the greatest social program is a job. >> it's hard to argue with that. >> that's the amazing thing. i don't know what any of the republicans candidates can argue with him about. there's one policy that he has that is out of step with the republican party. everything else in his speech could have come out of the mouths of virtually every other republican running.
the other different is, he's not in favor of cutting social security. >> but i missed our ridicule, which is enjoyable. he also is pretty odious in some ways. >> yeah. >> this is him talking about mexico, which is probably his most odious rhetoric. >> mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. >> screw you. >> they're not sending you. they're not sending you. they're sending people that have lots of problems and they're bringing those problems with us. they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, their rapists. and some, i assume, are good people. >> really got the nose up on that. drugs, crime, rapists. and i assume some good people. it's offensive and it's -- >> it's demented. >> no sending their best. >> he's spending something something like $500,000 to write a full page ad about the central five, five kids who ended up being vindicated. he resented the fact even though they spent years in jail that he would be a payout from the city.
this guy is an odious person. he is an individual is particularly odious. but if you look at his position, he's just saying essentially what the republican base wanted to hear. >> it's that through the bizarreo system. he has been popular, this is him on isis in syria. >> islamic terrorism is eating up large portions of the middle east. they've become rich. i'm in competition with them. they just built a hotel in syria. can you believe this? they built a hotel. when i have to build a hotel, i pay interest. they don't have to pay interest because they took the oil that when we list i said we should
have taken. now isis has the oil. >> i will give him this. this is a consistent point of donald trump's foreign policy criticism of the iraq war that we should have taken all their oil. he's been very clear on this. >> the interesting is a new twist. when they can build interest free. but honestly, where is the daylight between donald trump and lindsey graham on these issues where lindsey graham says anything in the middle east with an al in front of it is a problem or we're looking in one of the most dangerous times. this is the thing donald trump is doing, exactly what their positions are. >> it's the pure id. and it's with all rhetorical
niceties stripped away. >> exactly. and keep in mind, to make the debate, he has to make the top ten. right now, he's at 4%. he would make the debate, right, without a doubt. and he's going to get up there. there he is, right? he's going to go up there and he is going to absolutely be this vortex of gravity and this is the kind of stuff. he's going to tell the -- on the stage, he makes more money than they should all shut up, like he told us today. >> absolutely. >> big accounting firm, one of the most respected. 9,240,000,000. and i have liabilities of about 500. in fact, one of the big banks came to me and said donald, you don't have enough borrowing. could we loan you $4 billion? i said i don't know need it.
i don't want it. and i've been there. i don't want it. i don't have to brag, believe it or not. i'm doing that this day that that is the kind of thinking our country needs. >> that is going to be in prime time on fox with literally tens of millions of people watching. it's the center of a republican presidential debate with ted cruz, marco rubio. >> and how do they respond to it? everything they've been saying is essentially what he is saying. the idea that people approve that he's in the race, what is charlie fiorina doing in the race? how about ben carson who is polling higher than him. i mean, the amazing thing is he's going to get up on stage and he's going to say, i'm a businessman, i have more money than all of you, i should be president.
what are they going to say, you have no governmental experience? honestly. everything that he says, they are refuting themselves if they responded. >> if he stays in this -- >> i am still a little bit upset about this. up next, judd gregg fought the math and the math won. hundreds of thousands of the e-class has 11 intelligent driver-assist systems. it recognizes pedestrians and alerts you. warns you about incoming cross-traffic. cameras and radar detect dangers you don't. and it can even stop by itself. so in this crash test, one thing's missing: a crash. the 2016 e-class from mercedes-benz.
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plummeted to a 15-year low -- >> no, it hasn't plum he hadded. >> it's gone from 44 million to 40 million. that's not a plummet. >> no. based on the pugh data, you think that's rue? >> yes, that is true. >> former senator judd gregg and i got into a dispute last night about how much the uninsured rate has dropped since obama care was implemented. the short answer is i was right and he was wrong. it felt to 11.9% the first quarter of this year, down a third, a third since 2013 just before obamacare went into affect. i would call that slope you see there on that part of the graph plummeting. we reached back out to judd gregg to show him the chart and he says that it reflects medicaid expansion which is independent of obamacare and could have been done without it. perhaps he forgot that obamacare was part of medicare and that
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this is humira at work. right now on an island less than a thousand miles off the coast of florida, a government is constructing what amounts to modern day concentration campes and preparing for what could be an act of massive ethnic cleansing. hundreds of thousands of haitians living in the dominican republic now face being round up in so-called welcome centers and deported if they aren't registered with the dominican government before tomorrow's 7:00 p.m. deadline. long lines and red tape have complicated the registration complex and now advocates are concerned the government will simply target people with darker skin or more african looking
futures. it all stems from the 2013 court ruling that stripped dominican citizenship from children born to haitian immigrants going back to 1929. it's the latest round in a long history of racial conflict between the dominican republic and haiti. aungelique, this story has shocked people's conscious in the last few days. it's entered the radar screen. i want you to explain, there's hundreds of thousands of people and it's both, as my understanding, asian immigrants, the one group, but also dominicans whose parents were born in the dominican republic who simply have haitian parents. is that correct? >> that's correct, yes, chris. it's very shocking, but it's not something new. it's just that tomorrow is the deadline for the foreign migrant workers. it's the last day for them to register and to obtain work permits. but actually, the situation also for dominicans of haitian descent, as you were explaining,
will become more critical as of tomorrow once the government pursues officially deportation. and there's a big group of haitian defends are stripped of their nationality and who are now effectively stateless. so they're neither any more dominicans and they're not haitians and they're completely vulnerable to deportation and other rights violations, as well. >> this would be akin to if the supreme court were to render a ruling saying 35-year-old insurance executive in chicago whose parents were mexican and who was born in chicago and has never seen mexico and speaks not a word of spanish, that person is suddenly no longer an american citizen and you must register with the government or face deportation. that's functionally what these folks are saying. >> exactly. i think that's a very good
example of what this amounts to. obviously, there's been a long history of discrimination, racial prejudice against haitian immigrants, against essentially black dominicans who come from that part of the island. there was an actual genocide committed against them. what is going to happen to these people? are they going to be put on buses back to haiti? >> that's actually already happening. and that's why i said, you know, officially the -- it's already been happening. theoretically, those who are being deported are migrants that are trying to cross, that have reason to cross the border, in those areas that have been sent to the other side of the boarder. there is even -- even those that have had their -- >> there is what is so fascinate background the story to me. because recordkeeping has been spotty for a lot of these folks,
they don't have official documentation. the court ruling itself referenced people's facial features and said in the absence of documents we can make the determination of who goes, who is a citizen, who is not, based on what you look like. >> it's an absurd decision, completely contrary to international law. it's awful. and it generated a lot of international and domestic outrage, which is why the state has taken measures, but these measures have not been really solving the problem because part of these groups, the dominicans who were born in the dominican republic to undocumented parents but were never able to register, they were not allowed to because they were too poor to do so, they were -- the only option
that was given to them was to apply, to naturalized citizenship and basically self-report as foreigners even though they're dominicans. many of them couldn't do it in time because that deadline expired in february. we have now at least 100,000 people who are effectively stateless. >> i hope that folks continue to keep their eyes on this. we'll continue to cover it. i think the dominican -- the government of the dominican republic is going to face some serious international pressure. the rachel maddow show starts right now. >> thank you at home for joining us this hour. today was amazing in the news. in just the news about politics